If they were doing it properly the real Joker would be a representation of Arthur's shadow or dissociative identity disorder which would kill Arthur in a sort of failed heroes journey where he gives into the challenge, making him truly become the joker. But it sounds like they did it very clumsily and only stuck it in on the second film.
There were so many ways the film could have executed the split personality angle. There was a real concept here - but the writers completely took a hands off approach to it, seemingly afraid of the consequences. (emboldening the 'wrong people', having Joker and Harley Quinn consolidate efforts to ensue chaos and cause acts of domestic terrorism. Oh the humanity.) Suddenly those who defend BLM riots are pearl-clutching.
I can imagine it would have been handled with nightmares/hallucination scenes like Black Swan.
I think it's likely your analysis is correct. The film was made for Joaquin Phoenix, apparently the idea for it came to him a 'dream'. He seems to have very extreme anti-hierarchy ideas going so far as to have naturist anarchist ideas because of his reaction to his upbringing in a religious cult. It’s the same origin as the fabian socialists. This propaganda is possible for someone with such a psychology.
Seems pretty unrealistic that a crazy woman would leave her crush in jail. I visited my buddy in lock-up one time and there were droves of hotties in line with me. Made me reconsider my life-choices for sure!
Out of all the negative reviews I’ve read on this, yours is the first to address the rape. What was so disturbing is not just that it happened, but that it’s what sends Arthur down the “redemptive” path desiring to be a good citizen. It’s almost like the filmmakers thought of rape as some viable means of rehabilitation.
Just watched the film myself. As I did not see the original Joker film as a right wing encourager, I did not see this film as a right wing deflector. I think that helped a lot in making me see the film differently. As for Gaga's Lee, I just saw her as the stereotypical woman-who-falls-in-love-with-criminal type. After he discarded his criminal hero idea in public, she became disinterested. Her interest was to further her worldview, and he failed that idea. As for the 'rape', I just thought he was humiliated and beaten, I didn't think it was a tape so that surprises me. As for the ending, it's just furthering the idea that this film is detached from its comic background. He was seen as the chaos bringer when he was just the spark. After all the bad reviews and your article's headline, I really thought I'd hate it when I walked in. But I walked out thinking "yep, similar to the first film, pretty good."
Harley have A LOT to do with the character development of Arthur during the movie. She is the reason he returns to being the Joker and the reason he gives up lamely when doom was certain. When he is free, he abandons his whole identity FOR HER. Your analysis seems very superficial to me. Joker 2 is a very realistic and metaphorical movie. Guess why people are hating it. Reality is not fun.
In the weeks prior to an election, people should watch the classics of political films: The Producers, Duck Soup, Chinatown, High Plains Drifter, and Clue.
The truth about ALL politics is in those five movies.
Oh man I know you're a data scientist and this might be an off topic but I'm not a data scientist is there any good data on mass immigration and negative effects on the economy
Wow, thank you for a brilliant analysis. I’ll keep it in mind when I see and then cry about the movie!
Yeah, that's what we need...people that think having a joker is a good idea.
How horrific.
We truly do live in a (demoralizing) society.
Thank you for saving me £13.
If they were doing it properly the real Joker would be a representation of Arthur's shadow or dissociative identity disorder which would kill Arthur in a sort of failed heroes journey where he gives into the challenge, making him truly become the joker. But it sounds like they did it very clumsily and only stuck it in on the second film.
There were so many ways the film could have executed the split personality angle. There was a real concept here - but the writers completely took a hands off approach to it, seemingly afraid of the consequences. (emboldening the 'wrong people', having Joker and Harley Quinn consolidate efforts to ensue chaos and cause acts of domestic terrorism. Oh the humanity.) Suddenly those who defend BLM riots are pearl-clutching.
I can imagine it would have been handled with nightmares/hallucination scenes like Black Swan.
I think it's likely your analysis is correct. The film was made for Joaquin Phoenix, apparently the idea for it came to him a 'dream'. He seems to have very extreme anti-hierarchy ideas going so far as to have naturist anarchist ideas because of his reaction to his upbringing in a religious cult. It’s the same origin as the fabian socialists. This propaganda is possible for someone with such a psychology.
Thanks, saves the time, haha
Seems pretty unrealistic that a crazy woman would leave her crush in jail. I visited my buddy in lock-up one time and there were droves of hotties in line with me. Made me reconsider my life-choices for sure!
Thanks for this review.
Out of all the negative reviews I’ve read on this, yours is the first to address the rape. What was so disturbing is not just that it happened, but that it’s what sends Arthur down the “redemptive” path desiring to be a good citizen. It’s almost like the filmmakers thought of rape as some viable means of rehabilitation.
Just watched the film myself. As I did not see the original Joker film as a right wing encourager, I did not see this film as a right wing deflector. I think that helped a lot in making me see the film differently. As for Gaga's Lee, I just saw her as the stereotypical woman-who-falls-in-love-with-criminal type. After he discarded his criminal hero idea in public, she became disinterested. Her interest was to further her worldview, and he failed that idea. As for the 'rape', I just thought he was humiliated and beaten, I didn't think it was a tape so that surprises me. As for the ending, it's just furthering the idea that this film is detached from its comic background. He was seen as the chaos bringer when he was just the spark. After all the bad reviews and your article's headline, I really thought I'd hate it when I walked in. But I walked out thinking "yep, similar to the first film, pretty good."
Harley have A LOT to do with the character development of Arthur during the movie. She is the reason he returns to being the Joker and the reason he gives up lamely when doom was certain. When he is free, he abandons his whole identity FOR HER. Your analysis seems very superficial to me. Joker 2 is a very realistic and metaphorical movie. Guess why people are hating it. Reality is not fun.
It's "Honkler." You missed the most important letter.
I might just re watch the first one. Other than that, what’s a good film to see in lieu of this one
Great piece, thanks for writing. I owe you $15. Will likely become a paid sub.
My friend actually worked on this film. Curious to hear his thoughts on this critique.
It is sad because Joker 1 was incredible. This film got 5.3 on IMDb and your analysis tells me why.
In the weeks prior to an election, people should watch the classics of political films: The Producers, Duck Soup, Chinatown, High Plains Drifter, and Clue.
The truth about ALL politics is in those five movies.
Bravo
Oh man I know you're a data scientist and this might be an off topic but I'm not a data scientist is there any good data on mass immigration and negative effects on the economy